When a CISO walks up to a vendor booth, it should be a golden opportunity to connect. So why do so many vendors not know where to even start?
Check out this post for the discussion that is the basis of our conversation on this week’s episode co-hosted by me, David Spark, the producer of CISO Series, and Steve Zalewski. Joining us is Adam Palmer, CISO, First Hawaiian Bank. Be sure to check out David’s book, Three Feet from Seven Figures: One-on-One Engagement Techniques to Qualify More Leads at Trade Shows.
Join the conversation on LinkedIn
Huge thanks to our sponsor, Endor Labs
Intro
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[David Spark] When a CISO walks up to a vendor booth, it should be a golden opportunity to connect, so why do so many vendors not know where to even start?
[Voiceover] You’re listening to Defense in Depth.
[David Spark] Welcome to Defense in Depth. My name is David Spark, I’m the producer of the CISO Series, and joining me as my co-host, he’s one of your favorites. It’s none other than Steve Zalewski. Steve, say hello to the audience.
[Steve Zalewski] Hello, audience.
[David Spark] As I understand, you are greeted at many a conference with, “Hello, Steve.” Am I correct on that?
[Steve Zalewski] [Laughter] That is true, like it or not, but I love my audience, so I’m willing to take that.
[David Spark] Good, good, good. Our sponsor for today’s episode is Endor Labs. Scale your engineering impact, not your security backlog. Ship secure code by default, whether it’s written by humans or AI, with security built into every commit, and we’ll have more about just that a little bit later in the show.
Let’s get into today’s topic, and today’s topic is very near and dear to my heart because I actually wrote a book akin to this subject, and I’ll mention it in just a moment, but it has to do with security trade shows, how CISOs engage with essentially a trade show floor, and how those who are on the trade show floor trying to pitch to CISOs how to engage.
So, CISOs don’t just walk up to a vendor booth because they like the signage, not at all. And I know people get very excited about how much their signage looks and how pretty their booth is, but that is not the attractor. Now, in a post on LinkedIn, Adam Palmer, who’s the CISO at First Hawaiian Bank – he’s actually our guest today, I’ll introduce him in a moment – he laid out what he expects as a CISO.
Vendors should be strategic, lay out next steps, and connect them to a non-sales advisor, all right? Why does that, which seems so simplistic and straightforward, seem so hard for vendors to figure out, Steve?
[Steve Zalewski] Yeah and therein lies the rub. What seems so simple is if we can just put CISOs on our forehead to separate CISOs from all the other people that show up at the booth, I think we could solve this problem.
[David Spark] Although you would not want “CISO” on your forehead walking around a trade show floor. You would be hounded, Steve. It’s like, well, you walk around, it’s not so much now, but it used to having the Press badge, because they give you a flag that says “Media” on it, you often get hounded, but not nearly as much as I used to.
Anyways, the person responsible for this post and the phenomenal discussion that ensued afterwards is here right now. I’m so thrilled he’s joining us. It is the CISO for First Hawaiian Bank. He is in Hawaii for this recording. In fact, I think our first guest from Hawaii recording.
It is none other than Adam Palmer. Adam, thank you so much for joining us.
[Adam Palmer] Aloha, great to be here.
What problem is this solving?
2:59.877
[David Spark] Ross Young, who’s the co-host of CISO Tradecraft, said, “I have always said you need to answer three important questions when you first meet. What problem does your tool solve for your customers? Two, why is the problem something your customers need to solve in the next three to six months?
And three, what differentiates your product approach from competitors in the same magic quadrant? If you focus on these three questions and the customer is interested, then you have found the right customer.”
And Raj Badhwar, a CISO over at Jacobs said, “At a conference, I don’t need another sales cycle in disguise. I need a spark.” No, not me here. “Show me a vision that makes me pause and think differently about a hard problem I own.” I like that. “Prove you can execute by walking me through how we would validate your solution and earn my trust by leading with insight, not persuasion.
If you can teach me something new in a short conversation, you’ve already won more ground than a dozen polished pitches ever could.” I love that last quote. Teach me something new in a short conversation. Has that ever happened to you, Steve?
[Steve Zalewski] Yes, but boy, it is so hard to do. Again, sounds so simple. And what I characterize it as is you have 30 seconds to make me interested, not make it important.
[David Spark] Define that for me.
[Steve Zalewski] So, that elevator pitch, what I call making it interesting, is giving me a reason to have a conversation with you. But don’t try to make it important to me because that’s a task that I have to do to be able to get a lot of things lined up.
So, how do you characterize what you do to make it interesting to me?
[David Spark] That’s a good point. And I’m going to throw this to you, Adam. A common sales tactic is, “Did you know that this research report says that X percentage of attacks are going to be happening through this vector? Are you worried about that?” And that is to validate, essentially, the company’s existence.
I’m assuming you’ve received that pitch. Yes, Adam?
[Adam Palmer] Sure, we all have at one time.
[David Spark] And that doesn’t change your mind because you already know what you need to be concerned about, don’t you?
[Adam Palmer] Yeah, I think the goal of the booth at a conference isn’t to close a deal. It’s to win the next conversation. And I don’t walk up to a booth looking for swag. I’m there because I think you might solve a real problem. And I’m looking for the vendor to lead with the problem, not every feature you sell.
And I look at the booth also, it’s not the start of a sales cycle. It’s the first chance you have to earn my trust, and trust is half your product.
[David Spark] That is a really, really good way of putting it. Win the next conversation. I’ve said this also about emails. The goal of an email is not to close the deal right there on the spot. The goal is to get a response. So, let me ask you a sort of similar question I asked to Steve.
What has been a positive engagement for you when you walked up to a booth, Adam?
[Adam Palmer] I give you a great example recently, just happened this last year at a large conference. A vendor opened up with, “We can reduce your mean time to respond,” your MTTR, which is a key statistic for us that we track, “Within 30 days, using your existing tools and logs,” and asked do I want to see them validate that.
And actually they connected me immediately with, I think the title was a field CISO, who we met with again in a week with my team. So, it was just an immediate connection, immediately strategic value-based and really made the case for a strong second conversation.
[David Spark] Steve, have you had something like that where they gave a really good, compelling pitch, going back to your interesting thing that got you interested? And can you think of the exact pitch?
[Steve Zalewski] Sure, there’s efficiency versus effectiveness. If your pitch is efficiency, trying to make my people more efficient, that’s what everybody’s pitch is. I listen to, can you make my organization more effective at doing the job? So, like I had a vendor when I came up, it was security awareness training.
And they go, “Look, humans are the weakest link because they make mistakes. And so, we augment the training, not to be able to change the behavior, but to be able to try to reinforce the right behavior.” And I said, “Boy, that is a great way of characterizing my problem that I could use with my executive team.”
What are they looking for?
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[David Spark] Thomas Quilty, CSO over at IMA Team, said, “If you are sitting down and not engaging with people who stop at your booth, I’m most likely memorizing your company name from my ignore list. I know it’s tiring working a booth, but you can make amazing sales by being engaging.” All right, this is where I’m going to mention my book.
So, I wrote a book called Three Feet from Seven Figures, because you are literally that close to a customer, and if their lifetime value is seven figures or more – many of the people who are listening, that’s probably the case – this is for you because the subtitle is One-on-One Engagement Techniques to Qualify More Leads at Trade Shows, I’ll provide a link on the post for this episode, but it’s literally a very short book that you should read just before you go to a conference about how do I stop people as they’re walking by, engage with them, and have a positive experience whether they’re qualified, not qualified, move on.
And even disqualified people deserve your attention because they need to know your story because they will talk to qualified people. All right, commercial over.
Let me go back to the next quote here, and that is from John Salomon, Cybersecurity Advisors Network, “If the CISO is actually coming to you, that’s about as vendor jackpot as it gets. If you managed to blow it by trotting out the dead-eyed used car sales drone, then I don’t know what to say.” Oh, that is a great line.
So, yeah, if the CISO walks right to your booth, you better have that prepared line. I’m sure it’s happened both ways for you, Adam, yes?
[Adam Palmer] Yeah, and I would say don’t hand me a QR code and act like we’ve built an established relationship.
[David Spark] Right, going back to your previous line is the goal here is to win the next conversation.
[Adam Palmer] Also, when I approach, I don’t want to be asked, “Are you responsible for cybersecurity?” and then immediately pushed into a sales meeting. I’ve had those experiences and I walk away in 20 seconds.
[David Spark] There is actually a security professional by the name of John Dixon, who is known for wearing very funny t-shirts on trade show floors, and one year he wore a t-shirt that just said, “Does not have purchase authority,” which I thought was hysterical [Laughter] because of just that very question.
When you ask that question, it’s like, oh, come on, we know why you’re here. Let’s not do that. So, what’s your advice? What’s this sort of like, “Hey, I’m a CISO, I’m interested in your product, I heard about it.” What are you telling me here at the show?
Or what’s your approach when you come to the booth?
[Adam Palmer] I say be prepared, be specific, and be helpful. And to break that down even further, so be strategic, understand who you’re talking to in terms of my level in understanding the strategic value. Explain to me a clear next step. This isn’t a discovery call.
I want a light validation that what you’re telling me is correct and effective. And then I would say help guide me to hand off to a technical expert on my team, someone who speaks your language, who can take it to the next steps. So, to me, those are the first elements of building trust with me.
[David Spark] And can you just give me a little specific, like give me an example of just that. How did a vendor do exactly that for you?
[Adam Palmer] Going back to the earlier example I gave or even a more recent example where we were looking to implement a zero trust strategy and the vendor really didn’t focus on the product. That was a much later conversation where they explained how the tool could help.
But they started with giving me strategic value use cases. They connected me immediately with an advisor who was a former CISO at a large company who had implemented a zero trust program, and he clearly explained the steps that they had taken, it was really a trusted partner, and even offered to speak at no cost with my team.
So, those were the ways of really being relevant, really being specific and understanding my problems, and being easy to work with and making us want to learn more, offering insights and earning our trust.
[David Spark] That really sounds [Laughter] like a great sort of menu for success there. Steve, anything to add to that?
[Steve Zalewski] Yeah. One of my experience here is if you’re approaching a big booth versus a small booth, like if you’re going to RSA, for example, okay? When you go to the small booths, odds are you’ve got the executives there. There’s two or three of them, CEO, CFO, CTO.
So, if I’m targeted that booth, I’m coming in and, in my mind, I’m thinking already, I’m probably going to be talking to one of the executives to know how this conversation goes. But if I get to some of the bigger booths, I’m kind of the same thing.
My own expectation is I’m walking up to somebody who I don’t know. Odds are I’ve got the greeter. This is like Walmart, and I have to appreciate I’m getting the greeter and then I have to communicate to the greeter what I want for them to hand me off to somebody that will probably answer the questions.
But again, in my own mind, I’m appreciating the likely scenario of how, when I approach to engage, the process I’m going to go through to get to what I need. So, that when the greeter may come up with some fixed lines to start with, I don’t immediately discount them because I’m appreciating, they’re probably younger, they’re just out there to be able to get to those.
[David Spark] Value the process flow that exists. Like, yeah, don’t discount it. Yeah, I know the person you’re going to walk up to is not going to be able to answer any of your questions, but they’re going to, if they’re prepared well, do their best to deliver for you.
[Steve Zalewski] Or, like I said, walk up and say, “Hey, look, hi, this is what I’m looking for,” right? So, same thing when you’re a greeter going into the used car lot, own the conversation first so that you don’t waste time because they’ll appreciate that as well.
If you’re in a circumstance where you really don’t know what they do, then they’re going to have that first opportunity to ask. But again, I go smaller booth, odds are that people you’re talking to may be able to cut to the chase, like Adam talked about.
[David Spark] You can physically see everybody in the booth. [Laughter]
[Steve Zalewski] Right.
[David Spark] At a smaller booth, everyone’s an arm’s reach away.
[Steve Zalewski] And that’s just it. You talk to the CEO and he goes, “Here’s my CTO right here,” quick. You get to the big booth. So, what I say, too, is have reasonable expectations, right? Set it up for success. If you’re the booth individual and a CISO comes to you and you’re younger, depending upon how well you’ve been coached, you may start with the wrong foot forward, and now it’s up to me to be able to give you a second first chance.
[Adam Palmer] I’ll add just to follow on what Steve said is the fastest way to lose my interest is if somebody though tries to fake it and pretend you know my business before you ask a single question. So, if you don’t know my business and you don’t know, maybe you’re not necessarily a technical expert, just make sure that you connect me soon with somebody who can earn my trust.
That’s fine but just be able to make that connection. I’m not trying to be harsh on vendors. They’re trusted partners and I can’t do my job without them. We’re all under extreme pressure often, for them for the tools to work, and for me to operationally to work.
I’m just asking a vendor to respect my time, to show real value, and to really become a partner quickly.
[David Spark] By the way, I will say the complete flip of that is also true. So, I have often walked trade show floors, have a Press badge. I’ll walk in, ask for a demo, or I’ll be chatting with somebody. The communications person who’s working the booth will see I’m wearing a Press badge, see I’m talking to somebody in the booth, and they’ll literally interrupt.
Now, by the way, this has not happened in a number of years, but it used to happen a lot. They go, “Oh no, no. You can’t talk to that person. You need to talk to this,” and nothing infuriates me more than that. And I go, “I’m actually having a very nice conversation with this person.
I’m going to keep talking to them.” I literally shoo the comms person. I’m like, “No, we’re doing fine here. Go away, please.” And it’s insulting to the person that’s working there and it’s also insulting to me. So, if two people are having a good conversation and one of them’s got a Press badge, let it go.
You’ve already got success.
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16:04.653
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What needs to be considered?
17:40.104
[David Spark] Sanjiv Cherian of Microminder Cyber Security said, “Too many vendors still lead with features instead of strategy, forgetting that CISOs are balancing business risks, not toggling configs.” Love that. “Understanding industry context, mapping your value to team roles, and showing up as a trusted advisor,” what you said, Adam, “That’s what separates a future partner from just another booth conversation.” Good quote.
Nadeem Rehman, Club Technology Professionals, said, “I walk up, badge blazing, and suddenly the booth staff start rearranging their pitch like I’m a surprise compliance audit.” [Laughter] “Look, I’m not here for a product demo. I’m here to see if you understand my world.
I don’t want to hear about your AI-powered threat detection unless you can explain how it helps me sleep through a regulatory review. I once had a vendor open with, ‘Do you manage firewalls?’ I said, ‘No, I manage board expectations and existential dread.’ If you want my attention, bring strategic value, tell me who on my team should care, and for the love of risk, connect me to someone who speaks fluent governance, not just quota.” Love that quote.
And Steve Tcherchian of XYPRO Technology said, “Too many vendors forget that CISOs aren’t looking for feature tours or talking to a salesperson. We’re looking for strategic alignment, clarity on how our teams engage, and a trusted partner who can guide us through the noise.
The best partnerships I’ve seen happen when vendors invest in understanding the business context first, not just pushing product or introducing me to an account manager. That’s the fastest way to turn me away.” So, I’m going to start with you, Adam, on this.
They are singing your story here. I mean, they are right up there, and I love all three of these quotes. What’s your take?
[Adam Palmer] A lot of CISOs, including myself, we can feel overwhelmed and at times impatient. I really want three questions answered in the first couple of minutes, which is, is your tool relevant? Is it real? And is it worth my time later?
[David Spark] Yeah. Is it real? It’s a good one. We’ve heard a lot of things, pitching stuff that’s on a road map four years down. Steve, I’m sure you’ve seen that. Yes?
[Steve Zalewski] Yeah, and here’s the one that gets me. Stop pitching me a problem and pitch me a solution. Because you pitch me a problem, you’re making it my problem. You pitch me a solution, you’re demonstrating you’re owning a problem for me, and just that simple perspective change as a CISO immediately starts to establish that trust.
[David Spark] Owning a problem for me, that sings partnership, doesn’t it, Adam?
[Adam Palmer] I agree. And I think that good CISOs rely on partners. We build trust and partners. We don’t operate in silos. And so, I am from that first moment, as I said, that I think trust is half the product. You don’t earn trust through my inbox.
That’s why I don’t respond to most cold vendor emails. Really, trust is built at the beginning and should be the first thing that you try to establish, and you do that by showing that you’re, again, going back to my earlier comment, that your product is solving a pain point for me.
You understand my industry, that it’s real, and that you are trying to help me, not just make the quick sale. You’re focused on my big picture, which is the success of my operational cybersecurity program.
[Steve Zalewski] Which let me riff on that. Business context. In the last two years, right, there’s been a huge transition here, which was we as CISOs have to solve a business problem now. We can’t solve a security problem. But that business context, most companies, most founders, right, vendors don’t want to do that.
They want to show me a problem that I can fix. So, how many vendors you come up, and you go, “Hey,” they say to you, “I bet you you have a problem of wanting to be able to see where all your data is in the cloud.” Well, yeah, but I’m not going to turn over that rock because that’s a huge rock and I don’t have a solution.
Whereas if they come up to Adam and I and say, “How would you like to be able to prioritize what data in the cloud is critical for you to protect, and protect it?” Now you got my attention because that’s more of a business ownership solution, but they can’t make that leap.
[Adam Palmer] I think that vision wins attention, but proof wins time, additional time. I believe, just to follow on a comment that Steve made, the modern CISO has to be a strategic business advisor. And that’s what I’m trying to think when I evaluate my investments.
You have to be able to speak fluent business to me and show the strategic value because I’m not just protecting data. I’m trying to guide strategic business decisions within my company.
[David Spark] That is a really, really good point, let me just label that. Our theme here at the CISO Series is that the CISO is a business executive, they need to speak the language of the business, but that trickles down if you want to sell to them.
Speak at the same level there.
What does a successful engagement look like?
22:54.707
[David Spark] Thomas Naylor of hifo said, “The elephant in the room is that the longer the ‘sales process’ lasts, the greater the likelihood that the sale won’t happen. Nobody likes being sold to. In my view, the key thing the vendor needs to do is inform the buyer efficiently by giving the right information succinctly and then progressing onto a real conversation where, indeed, use cases can be discussed and next steps identified.” Steve, this is just sort of a standard, just get to the point, move quickly.
Nobody wants to jump through a lot of hoops. We’ve all done it. It just aggravates us. I mean, this is just kind of summarizing everything we talked about of get to the point.
[Steve Zalewski] We agree, but then we get back to the, so stop putting junior people on the floor. Because if you’re going to hire junior people or you’re going to hire the equivalent of booth babes, you’re setting yourself up for failure because you’re just trying to put feet on the floor.
You’re not appreciating the value of that first interaction. And I don’t have a good answer for that. Okay? But that gets back to the go to the smaller booths, and you get the CEO, CTOs that are just putting in 60 hours a week because they are the sales team and they’re the experts.
And you get to some of the other vendors that are just trying to have feet on the floor and there’s a missed opportunity there. And I hate walking up to some of the younger ones, quite honestly, and they know that they don’t really know the product, and so they put themselves on the defensive because they’re just saying, “Hi, do you have a problem with security awareness training?”
[David Spark] Yeah, they’ve been trained on how to do basic communications, and once you jump out of the playbook, then they don’t know what to do.
[Steve Zalewski] Right. See? Stop doing that.
[David Spark] Adam?
[Adam Palmer] I would say if you can make me smarter in 2 minutes, I will give you 20 more later.
[David Spark] I got to close on that. I have to close on that. That is the summary of the whole thing – make me smarter in 2 minutes, I’ll give you 20 later. I love that. That’s perfect, Adam. All right.
Closing
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[David Spark] Adam, now I’m going to come and ask you the following. A lot of really good quotes. In fact, I think the third segment had the best quotes, but I think they all had good quotes. Which was your favorite quote and why?
[Adam Palmer] I really liked the quote I think you started with by Raj, and I think he was absolutely right that the best vendors teach the CISO something new. They earn attention, trust, and time. And that’s really what I’m looking for. I’m looking for a vision that sparks curiosity, a validation that builds credibility with me, and I want your insights.
That persuades me to give you additional time. Going back to my earlier comment as well, the vendor who walked me through initially how they could reduce some breach time or our mean time to respond, breach detection time by 60% within 30 days. It wasn’t a pitch.
They were specific about value, and they had use cases to validate that. That earned my initial strong interest and faith in them.
[David Spark] And I will double down on something. There’s often this comment about differentiation, and I quote the investor, Chris Sacca, who asked the question, “What’s your unfair advantage?” I think that’s a much better question because they may have some special sauce or special capability or special talent that goes beyond differentiation because differentiation just means, well, today, this is what we can do.
But unfair advantage, it speaks to, ah, it’s not easy for them to catch up because of what we have. That, I think you should have a better answer. All right, Steve, you’re nodding your head, your favorite quote and why.
[Steve Zalewski] I’m going with Ross Young as well.
[David Spark] Hold it! Doubling up here?
[Steve Zalewski] I’m doubling up. This is the first time ever, I want you to know. Adam, I’ve never doubled up in all the episodes.
[David Spark] I want everyone else to know who’s quoted here. I loved everybody’s quotes here.
[Steve Zalewski] Oh, this is Ross Young. I’m quoting him as well. His three questions should be tattooed on the palm of every salesperson and put them on the floor.
[David Spark] Remind you, what problems does your tool solve? Why is it something your customers need to solve in the next three, six months? And what differentiates your product from the competitors?
[Steve Zalewski] But I would add the following slight adjustment to those. The first one, I would say what business problem does your tool solve for your customer? Business problem now, not technical.
[David Spark] I like that. That goes to your classic line of, “How does this help me sell jeans?”
[Steve Zalewski] You got it. Why is the problem something your customer needs to solve in the next three to four, six months? Again, not fear, uncertainty, doubt, but an appreciation for a change in how business is operating or environment, right on.
And the third one, when you talk about what differentiates your product approach, what I’m really looking for is not a feature change. I’m looking for, from a venture capitalist, what is the moat? Why can’t the competitors get to you? Or if they can, how long is it going to take?
That is the underlying principle that we need to hear from you when you talk about differentiation.
[Adam Palmer] To follow on what Steve said, too, I think if you can’t tell me why your product matters in the next three to six months, then you’re not solving a problem, you’re selling me a feature.
[David Spark] Ah, I like that. All right. That brings us to the end of the show. I want to thank our sponsor, Endor Labs. Scale your engineering impact, not your security backlog. You can actually ship secure code by default, whether it’s written by humans or AI, with security built into every single commit.
You got to go to their website. Go to endorlabs.com. When you go there, let me know you heard about them on the CISO Series. I also am going to make another plea for my book because it’s so in line with our conversation. It is called Three Feet From Seven Figures.
In fact, if you could just go to the website, threefeetbook.com, and it could be the number 3 or the word three, you will find all the links on how to get it. It exactly teaches you techniques, generic techniques, not specific to cybersecurity, about how to work a trade show booth and tells you what not to do.
And I will just briefly say, bad behavior in a booth, which is staring at your phone, turning your back to the floor, talking to your buddies, not talking to people on the floor, people will silently judge you and walk by. You don’t want that at all.
[Laughter] Go check it out, threefeetbook.com. It is a very cheap book to get, and it is worth it. I promise you’ll get at least one tip out of it that’ll make you better, perform better, and the ROI will be spectacular. Huge thanks to our guest, Adam Palmer, who is the CISO of First Hawaiian Bank.
Adam, thank you so much for joining us.
[Adam Palmer] My pleasure. Thank you.
[David Spark] Adam, are you hiring over at First Hawaiian Bank?
[Adam Palmer] Yes. In fact, we are soon opening even a role for a very junior person just out of college. So, all those new aspiring cybersecurity leaders, we’ve got an opening on our SOC team, and we are always looking to talk with good people as a growing bank in a really fun location.
[David Spark] And do you have to be in Honolulu?
[Adam Palmer] No. That role, specifically the one I’m thinking of, is based in Honolulu, but actually several members of my team work on the continental U.S. So, we are a geographically diverse team.
[David Spark] Well, if I got a job based in Honolulu, I’d figure a way to work on site. [Laughter]
[Adam Palmer] I tend to agree, but it’s not required for all jobs.
[David Spark] Of all the places, ah! I have to move to Honolulu. Tough break. Thank you very much, Adam. Thank you very much, Steve. And to our audience, we greatly appreciate your contributions and for listening to Defense in Depth.
[Voiceover] We’ve reached the end of Defense in Depth. Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss yet another hot topic in cybersecurity. This show thrives on your contributions. Please write a review, leave a comment on LinkedIn or on our site CISOseries.com where you’ll also see plenty of ways to participate, including recording a question or a comment for the show.
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